In this episode, Victor and I tackle one of the most relatable topics in faith: spiritual desolation.

I open up about my personal struggles with feeling distant from God and how even saints like Mother Teresa faced years of spiritual dryness. Together, we explore what desolation really means and how it can impact our prayer life, mindset, and overall connection with God.

Drawing inspiration from St. Ignatius of Loyola and the teachings of Mother Teresa, we break down how to push through these tough times, offering practical advice on perseverance, prayer, and trusting God’s will even when it feels like He’s far away.

If you’ve ever felt stuck in your spiritual journey, this episode offers a reminder that you’re not alone—and that there’s a way forward.

📚 Bible verses for reflection:

John 7:37-38 – “If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’”

Psalm 40:1-2 – “I waited patiently for the Lord; he turned to me and heard my cry. He lifted me out of the slimy pit, out of the mud and mire; he set my feet on a rock and gave me a firm place to stand.”

Romans 8:28 – “And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.”

James 1:2-3 – “Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness.”

James 1:12 – “Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.”

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✈️ Join us on one of our 2025 pilgrimages:

March 10-15: Visit the Shrine of Our Lady of Guadalupe in Mexico with Father Zachary, a fantastic priest and friend. This affordable trip is perfectly timed for most school spring breaks.

May 12-23: Join Father Larry and me on a spiritual journey to the Holy Land. Walk in the footsteps of Christ and experience an unforgettable pilgrimage.

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 Welcome back to the pew everybody. I’m your host, John Edwards, and here across the table from me as always is my co hosted cohort, Victor Adams, John. And like I said, It’s going to be a while since we’re back together. Cause you’re going to be traveling all over the place, aren’t you? Yeah.

Yeah. We’re going to be, we’re going to be moving a lot of places here in the next couple of months. We’ll still have time during the week to get the podcast episodes out, if you’re at the schedules mess, but yeah, mesh, but we’re going to, so we’re not doing reruns and no. No, there’s no there’s no syndication or anything like that just at this point.

But but now we’re, we are traveling everywhere, man. And I, but during the week we’ll be here so we could jump in and do some episodes and things like that. But yeah you bring up a good point, man. It’s the Lord has blessed us. It’s a very busy fall. We can just talk about September today cause we’re in September and welcome to September.

Everybody at where did the first half of the year ago? I don’t know. But but we are traveling a lot in the month. In fact, this coming weekend, September the 13th and 14th, we’ll be in Muncie, Indiana. It’s about a hour to the northeast of Indianapolis. So I’ll fly in Indianapolis, drive over there to the The pastorate there.

So it’s a family of parishes. And we’re going to wind up actually doing our restored parish mission and launching a group there. I’ve been working with Jason and all the folks up there to build an amazing group for men. We’ll actually be going back there in October for their men’s conference too.

So we’re going to work with them twice in the next two months. But then the following weekend, I’ll be headed up to South Bend not to see a Notre Dame game, even though they’re playing at home that day, I was wondering why I couldn’t find a hotel room when I looked and then I went prices. So ridiculous.

It’s yeah, it’s like motel six, 500. And I was like, no, it actually was like Miami of Ohio or somebody, but but so we’ve scheduled that on that weekend, but I’ll be up there at st at albert parish up there the 20th through the 21st, so that’s the following weekend. We’re starting a group there a men’s group and we’re also going to be doing a restored parish mission for men and women there And then finally the last week in the month of september the 27th to 28th.

We’d be headed to Folsom County, California to St. John the Baptist out there. I’ve been working with Tyler for over a year and he’s got a great team and they’ve got a bunch of people signed up for the mission as these other guys do too. And and we’re going to go out there and help launch a group right there in Folsom County.

So I’m going to feel like Johnny Cash headed out to Folsom. Hopefully I don’t wind up in the prison, but yeah you know what? I’ll have to, I’ve got a black just to get on the pew shirt. Maybe we should do that in honor of Johnny Cash, who’s also from around this area and Arkansas and recorded here in Memphis, but I digress.

But that’s the next three places we’re going. And then we’re headed to some men’s conferences and stuff like that in October, all the way through November, it’s going to be an exciting time while I’m talking about events. Go ahead and just mention again, Paul George and I had the show a couple weeks ago.

You were so gracious to let him come in and take your seat for a week. And he and I were talking about the restored mission that we’re going to be doing. It’s different from our restored parish things, right? This is for the JP two healing center. Same name, different thing. Yeah. We’re going to have a healing conference for men.

And that first one’s going to take place November the 14th through the 16th in Ann Arbor, Michigan at Christ the King. It’s a very. Big and amazing parish up there. The JP two healing centers done a lot of work up there in the past, and we’re going to be doing these men’s conferences. I was on the phone yesterday with Dr.

Bob and his daughter, Carrie and their team. They’re helping me put out the book I’m writing right now. They’re going to publish it to the JP two healing centers. So there’s some breaking news too, but we’re going to be putting that out. Hopefully in the next six to eight months we’ll start working to get that finished and completed.

But. I was on a call with them and Carrie, who does their Undone conferences, which are the women’s conferences. She was talking about like everywhere they go, like people are saying, when are you going to have something for men? They are now and Paul and I are going to be the the presenters on those conferences.

So we’ll have the first one in November. You can go to the JP2 Healing Centers website, that’s JP2iihealingcenter. com. Dot org and you can search events, you could see restored there, and you could sign up and join us. Doesn’t matter if you’re from that area or not, you can come from all over the country and join us for that Healing Men’s conference.

So I’m really excited about that as well, and being able to, it’s just such an honor to be associated with and to work now as a team member in a presenter for the John Paul II Healing Center. So it’s gonna be a great blessing, guys. Go and sign up for that. I know one of my buddies in California, mark mark Huss, he’s a big supporter of our ministry.

Shout out to you, mark. He’s flying all the way. Up there for that conference because he’s just looking to go further in his own healing. So Excited to see you mark and all you other guys that’ll show up for that And then finally, I want to invite all of you that are listening to join our mission, become a monthly partner in the pew.

We’ve had a lot of people do that in the last few weeks, Victor, and we’ve been putting out these stories and sharing about, how this ministry is impacting people. And I even got one yesterday from a guy that we simply put out like a an ad about merchandise and this coffee mug and stuff. And this guy on Instagram was like, dude, I’ll listen to your podcast.

Every single day, like I get so excited whenever it’s out and when I’m working out or doing things, I’m listening to it and he’s I actually get sad when it’s over quickly because I wanted more and I’m going to buy one of those coffee cups on my paycheck when it hits next week. And so even things like that, like guys are listening to show it’s helping them.

They’re enjoying it. That’s the podcast and the work that we’re doing with these men’s groups and everything else is just transforming men’s lives. We shared stories recently about the group in Massachusetts doing the service work. The young man who’s coming to our group, his life’s been changed.

I hear those all the time. And so that’s what we’re doing in this work. So as we move towards giving Tuesday or just, if you’re listening to this right now, if the Lord’s moving your heart to be involved in something you want to help, then you can join this mission. You can become a monthly partner in the pew.

That simply means that you’re going to support us on a monthly basis that helps us because then we know what we have to work with on a monthly basis, just like any business. I hate to speak about ministry like that, but it is, there are business aspects to it. You can’t grow if you don’t know what you have to use to grow.

So there you go. So when you become a monthly partner, Pew, it gives us one more support, a better idea of what we have and how to use it, and you’re helping countless people, right? Like you don’t have to be on a microphone or on a stage or anything like that to help people. God’s called Victor and I to do that.

And we’re bringing on some other people to help us in this mission. let us do the work and you help us through your support. And that’ll be as good of a gift as you could give to anybody, right? Continue to evangelize in your own life, but use this as a way to reach more people than you possibly could on your own.

So we ask you to consider supporting us and more importantly, supporting the men that we’re helping along the way. So you can do that by going to just a gallon pew. com. Or you can go directly to donor box. org slash pew P E W, but they’re on our website just to get on the pew. There’s a donate button on every page so you can check it out there.

Thank you for all of that, Victor. It’s time to jump back into the episode here. Thanks folks for listening to where we’re going. I just want people to know if we’re coming to their area and then always, we’re looking for people to support us so we can continue to help folks. So thanks for listening to that.

Victor, I’m excited about this show today for a couple of reasons. This show is pretty Is really coming from a place i’ve been for the last couple weeks And we talked about that before like we love doing the shows where god has just done something in our lives or he’s doing something in our lives or we’ve come to realization of something in our lives that we need to fix or change or And then we think we can’t be the only one So that’s another one of these weeks and another one of those shows and to be honest with you victor I’ve been in a lot of desolation lately.

Just been struggling in some things the ministry’s going great. Like I said people are giving and all those things But man, sometimes you just get in a spot where you feel desolate, you feel dry, you feel arid your prayer life struggles, you’re praying, but you don’t feel God, right?

You’re, you you start to second guess the things that you’re doing. You’re wondering if you’re really making an impact, all those kinds of things. And those are normal things that if you look in the lives of any Saint. Which I’m not saying we’re saints by any means, like that’s the goal. But right now, certainly not.

We’re you, all of them talk about desolation. They talk about these times of like dark nights of the soul. It’s St. John of the cross, mother Teresa, who we’re going to talk about a lot today, experienced a lot of desolation. And, for me personally, it just. Something happens and you get down about it and then another thing happens and it’s almost like an avalanche.

Then you start to have these thoughts, you start to go inward, you start to swirl down the toilet bowl of your life, if you will, where you start to look at everything in a negative light and you start to be self critical and you start to feel inadequate and all those things that we talk about a lot.

And that’s where you find yourself in desolation and you, and a lot of times you feel yourself reaching for the Lord and saying, where are you? Because you don’t feel his presence, right? You feel like as if you’ve been abandoned or you’re alone, which is never the case we’ll talk about today. But, for those who don’t know what desolation is we really get that term from, Saying Ignatius of Loyola, like he was the one that really figured all this stuff out in his own life He had been injured and spent a lot of time in a hospital bed And he started to notice like when I felt bad like I had these kind of thoughts when I felt good about myself, I had these kind of thoughts.

So he came up with the idea of consolation and desolation. And when I’m feeling good it’s because I’m in the right place with God and God is, feeling these moments of consolation from him, I’m having these good thoughts and everything’s more peaceful and joyful. And, but then there’s these times where I have these other thoughts and he calls it another spirit in some of his works, but.

He talks about where you don’t feel God and you feel depressed and you start to find yourself in this just state that you can’t really explain why you’re there all of a sudden. Like you could quickly go from this mountaintop to just boom, feeling like you’re at the bottom of the valley. And so he talks about that and he explains it in a couple of ways.

He says, Saint Ignatius says, It’s a darkness, desolation is a darkness of the soul, a disturbance in it. Movement to low and earthly things. Disquiet from various agitations and temptations, moving to a lack of confidence, without hope, without love, finding oneself totally slothful, tepid, sad, and as if separated from one’s Creator and Lord.

He goes on to say it’s a dark soul, a disturbed soul, a movement towards low and earthly things, disquiet from temptations and agitations, lack of confidence, a lack of hope, a lack of love, a feeling of being separated from God. And that’s really, where I found myself this past week was just man like God what’s going on?

Like I don’t want to go to mass. I don’t want to pray and when I do I feel like it’s just quick and orchestrated and just checking a box like I want to be lazy. I want to sleep in I want to watch movies instead of working I want to like there’s just all this stuff that i’m being like feel like i’m being called away from you lord And it’s a struggle.

I know that a lot of people feel not only like in ministry but in just everyday life where people just They get down with things and then they get in this place where Their mindset comes this negativity and you start looking downward and get in this place of despair the amazing thing about all of us is that this topic is something we know We don’t know we may not know what the word desolation is, but we’ve felt it You know, we know what it’s like to be all of a sudden you know feeling great things are going well, and then there’s this sudden change of like Encouragement or sudden change of positivity in your life, sudden change of decisions, some things precipitate, or sorry, precipitate it in a sense like loss of a job, death of somebody, sometimes those things trigger it.

Other times where everything’s fine, but yet internally there’s a struggle going on and you don’t know what’s going on because you said, I should be doing well, I should be happy, I should be, Enjoying this moment. What’s going on? There’s a disconnect, the Bluetooth isn’t hooking up to God.

That’s a good analogy. And that’s when we have to wake ourselves up and say, what am I doing? That i’m not that I should be doing. Yeah, what am I? What am I doing now that I know I need to do better sure and that’s and for me It’s always going back to scripture You know, being more in depth with my prayer being more concerned and present with my family, because I’m very good at withdrawing.

I am, I may seem like an extrovert, but internally I’m introvert. And I have to charge my batteries if I’m extrovert, I go back and like I was a bachelor for a while before, I met Christine. So I had a, I was able to really enjoy my time when I was by myself, and he enjoys his time with you, Christie.

He doesn’t mean that, of course. Yeah. With marriage, it was like a whole new door opened up to where I’m like, wow, this is what love is. This is what, sharing common goals and, being a parent, having children and like a whole new glimpse level of God’s love revealing itself in me, he’s you know how you love your wife?

I love you more. Yeah. You know how you love your daughters. I love you more. And you’re like, wow. If I know what love is by being a father and a husband, by that choice of feeling, what love is, God loves me 10 times, a hundred times and I have to convince myself sometimes when I’m in that dark, deep depression of like disconnect that, what can I do better?

Sure. What do I need to refocus? And usually when I refocus and I recalculate what I need to do. There’s that charge comes back, that connection starts to show itself because he’s hey man you’re trying to do everything on your own. Sure. You’re not being in my will Yeah, and that is what i’ve realized that whose will am I following sure?

And that’s it’s a good segue into how he talks about ignatius talks about how we find ourselves in desolation And you see there’s three different ways like we can become desolate Either through our own negligence to the matters of the spirit. So like we just start You neglecting the things that keep us in a good place.

Spiritually, we stop praying. We quit going to mass every day. If that’s a thing you do, you just start to allow the things of the world to take you away from the things that, keep you where you are. And that’s oftentimes where a lot of people find themselves in desolation. Then to God allows desolation because he wants.

To try us to see how much we desire to love and follow him. So where people think like, why is God doing this to me? It’s not God doing to you. God doesn’t put you in desolation. God doesn’t like, he doesn’t cause that he allows it. So what happens is he allows you because of free will to wander. And sometimes he allows it because he wants you to refocus on him.

And so he allows you to go out on your own to see how much you actually desire him because it’s easy to love God when you’re running through the tulips and everything’s good and money’s flowing into your bank account. And, it’s just like you walk outside and find a winning lottery card on the ground and everything’s easy.

It’s easy to follow God then, but when times get tough, that’s really when you see what kind of man you are, like what kind of spiritual man that’s where spiritual men are made. And those kinds of moments is, am I going to, throw my hands up in the air at God and say, where are you?

What are you doing? Why aren’t you making me feel good? Or Lord, I’m going to, I’m going to buckle down and start doing more to come back to you. And so we’ll talk a little bit about that, a little bit more in a little bit but then three says, finally, God allows desolation to occur simply as a reminder that we’re not in control of his grace.

We’re not in control of God’s grace. We’re not, he is. And so he allows us, that’s how we find ourselves in desolation. There’s three ways. And you mentioned Bluetooth. What, when does Bluetooth not work? When you get out of range, right? That can be that like you, like number one, where you become desolate through your own negligence, right?

Where you’ve just gotten too far away. Like your other things have become important. Your job, your career, your, chasing other things. What the world tells you and what you think you need to feel worthy or complete, right? Chasing achievements and things like that. And you take your eye off the ball.

But sometimes like the Bluetooth, you’re still in range and it doesn’t work, right? Like sometimes you’re picking up your phone. You’re like, the speaker’s right there. Why is it not working? Like, why is it not connecting? Like, why is it not playing the music on the speaker, the TV or whatever it is?

And sometimes it’s just because something’s a little wrong, right? Something’s not right. And that’s what the Lord wants you to center on. No, go into your settings and change this back. You’re all, you’re hooked up to your earphones instead of the speaker, right? So you’re, he wants you to go through there and look at point out these little things that may be.

An issue in your life that you need to look at, right? You’re in desolation because i’ve been giving you hints to stop something in your life that it’s not good for You’re refusing to do it So i’m just gonna allow you to feel this so you could sign a flash shine a flashlight in a room And they go.

Oh, there’s that thing I’ve been looking for there that was in the dark that I couldn’t find and hopefully, you know You’re able to turn the light on so You know, this is the thing man. Like it’s hard You Desolation is caused in those three ways. And a lot of people find themselves there and don’t even know what it is.

And that’s why I wanted to talk about it today. Because it is a thing. It’s not just you’re having bad luck or stuff like that. It’s a period We all go through as Christians and as people in life in general Even if you’re not a christian, like maybe you’re somebody listening this because you’re looking for answers.

Why do I always feel this way? Why do I feel like eeyore in my life all the time? Like with my head down and complaining about everything that’s wrong in my life and it could be very real and very painful Like I told my wife, you know the other day I said I just feel like lately I can’t find joy in anything You And I hate that I said that because I’ve been so abundantly blessed in my family, in this ministry, in the work we’re called to do, in friendship with you, in our group, in so many ways.

But desolation has a way of dropping this veil over your eyes to where you can’t see the, that stuff, you know it’s there, but you don’t feel it. That consolation from those things still exists on the other side of the veil. And, but you think it’s been taken away or gone and you think God has left you, but in fact, he’s closer than you can actually realize.

And that’s another thing St. Ignatius says. But the reason I want to bring all this up is because the Lord is so good, man. I think it’s providence that all this happened to me or came to, culmination this week on the, this past week, I should say, because this episode will come out the week after, this the feast day of mother Teresa, but as I started to deal with this, I was like, you know what, I’m not going to back away.

I’m not going to withdraw. I’m going to mass today. I’m doing the things I need to do. And I’m going to start my morning off with prayer. So I went and sat at my prayer station, my little book shelf is there, and I have ADHD I think, undiagnosed, and so I started looking at all the books, and I’m like, I’ve read that one, I’ve read that one doesn’t need to be in there.

What the heck is that book? Where did that come from? So I start pulling some out as I’m praying, and working and praying, I guess you could say, which I don’t suggest, you should concentrate solely on prayer. But I see this little blue book, I’m like, what is that, and I pull it out, and it’s the teachings in the life of mother Teresa.

And I’m like, where did this book come from? Or the, of the saint of Calcutta or something like, where did this come from? And it was a Matthew Kelly book put out by Don dynamic Catholic that basically had quotes for her for every day of the year, like reflections to look on. It was like, man, this is crazy.

And then as soon as I saw the cover, I was like she went through desolation. And so I spent like the afternoon or the morning reading through those quotes, like every single one of them looking for ones on desolation. And we’re going to go through some of those. But that was the first thing that happened.

Then, the feast day happens and I go to the mass that day. And Monsignor McCreary was in St. Louis doing mass and he started to talk about, the perseverance of mother Teresa and her own desolations and all that stuff. And I went, wow, man, I think this is what the Lord is wanting us to talk about this week, because I’d also been thinking, what are we going to do for a show?

And then finally I go to mass yesterday, which would have been yesterday, this past Friday, when the show comes out with my kids. To hear them sing in the choir and, I don’t go to communion because I, I had some sins in my life and I didn’t want to go and see the Lord until I received reconciliation and the sacrament of confession.

So I found the priest afterwards and we go in and he’s willing to hear my confession and He brings up, fortitude and perseverance and mother Teresa’s desolation. I was like, all right, that’s it. That’s what we’re talking about this week in this episode. So I wanted to spend the first little part of this, like talking about saying nations and what he says it is.

Cause he’s really the father of. This whole idea of consolation and desolation and really is very helpful in all his books And then there’s father timothy gallagher a priest here in our time that has done tremendous work On the teachings of st. Ignatius and this particular thing discernment of spirits It’s called so i’ll recommend everybody go check out his work if you want to go further in this But mother theresa was said to be in desolation for 50 years man 50 years us through our private writings Yeah, yeah, that’s where they like no one knew that like you’re right No one knew that she felt this desolation until after she was dead and they found her writings which someone put out as come be my light, the private writings of the saint of Calcutta, but think about that, Victor, think about what a powerful witness she was to the Lord, like her work with the poor.

She was a Nobel Peace Prize winner, like presidents and popes and all these people were coming together to listen to her talk about the way the world needed to go in these chaotic, crazy times. I remember being a Baptist I wasn’t even anywhere near the Catholic faith. And no one who Pope John Paul II was, and no one who Mother Teresa was, this little tiny nun.

But everyone knew who she was on the cover of Time Magazine, she was doing all of these things. And so when you hear that, that she was in desolation for 50 years, you’re like, what? How could she do that and continue to operate the way she did for the Lord? And it’s just amazing, man. When you hear like how she felt and then what she was still able to do through that.

What an example that is to all of us. And I hate to switch to a football analogy. Okay, go ahead, man. Like I said, I know. Yeah. Say way. I give them a warning to everybody. There you go. But like I said, we have a tendency to be emotionally connected to things on earth. And we don’t know that, but it becomes our slowly our little God, an example I could say, whether it’s your job or your income or your 401k, your portfolio or your sports, your favorite sports team, a lot of us live and die by our sports team.

We look for when the last bowl game or championship game ends, guess what? Recruiting begins, spring training begins and the hype starts talking, right? Yeah. Next thing you’re listening to all these things about how good your team’s gonna be, what they, the projection, all this stuff without any effort being put in it.

And then all of a sudden, you get built up, you’re like, we’re gonna do it again, and we’re gonna do this again. Then you might lose an island. Yeah. . That’s what I’m saying. So I realized that I and a long time ago I knew this, I knew that I should be in a, I’d be, I could cheer by team on, but not be so emotionally connected to something as if it becomes.

My everyday thought of your idol. You’re right. Like how are we doing recruiting? Why are we you know? What’s going on reading the boards watching YouTubes about people talk about what’s going on in the training camps? Yeah, so I became super hyped up for something and set expectations that had no control over Yeah, and of course everyone knows, I’m talking about my team Florida State, I love them regardless You know, but like I said is disappointed.

We’re owing to yeah, we’re trying to figure things out You And in the past I was so emotionally connected that I would be like a miserable person to be around. The height that we were supposed to do this I was supposed to receive this or our lives are saying I should have Gotten that promotion.

Yeah, I’ve should have gotten this job, or why is this happening to me? We play the blame game when we have no control over the situation, and again I go back to say these are 18 19 20 Yeah. And I’m putting my happiness on them and my emotional status. And so that, that’s what I think mother Teresa is going back to that.

Okay. Football now she’s over, but mother Teresa, I knew some guys at Gainesville that listen to us that are probably not feeling you’re sorry for you one bit. No, they are, but they’re dealing with stuff. Oh yeah. Ford is not much better. We are commiserating each other at the same time. We’re helping each other up.

But like I said for mother Teresa going 50 years. Yeah. Of being in desolation I don’t know if I could survive that no, I don’t really know if i’d be strong enough to get up and be faithful to go out and help people who are helpless To go out and pray to go out and just say god.

I love you. Where are you? Yeah, I will continue to love you continue to serve you but she’s example of what we should do even in our small Little isolated constellation moment. And that’s why I think this is so important. It’s message because right now someone is in constellation.

Someone’s going, what’s going on? Why can’t desolate? Sorry. Desolation. Yeah, I get this big stuff. That’s right. It’s good. Desolation. Bad, it’s my Protestant background, it’s like one of those things where we have to know that. A lot of us are on a shared journey in this world.

A lot of are doing the best we can to be better disciples, better sons, better fathers, better husbands, better friends. And by all that means we have to remove some things that are toxic or things that we are that no, we’ll get in the way of improving ourselves.

And, um, we’re all in the same boat. Sure. We’re all here on earth. We’re trying to figure it out. We’re doing the best we can. But we also have to know that by supporting and praying for each other and continuing to say, God, I’m here, let me follow your will. And I know I said already begin, but that’s the most important thing I’ve learned is whose will am I following?

Am I following my own will to make me happy by doing this by going to a nice restaurant because I know I’ll be happy because I eat this food. We all have these things that we think is going to make us happy day by day, or week by week, or month by month. And we look forward, we put all our investment emotion into something that is not permanent.

Yeah. And you wonder which one of these three things could mother Teresa have done? She was amazing. And maybe that wasn’t it. Maybe the Lord allowed her to feel that desolation so that, she died in 1997. Here we are in 2024. So 27 years later, we could have an answer.

And we could use this to help other people, right? So sometimes we wonder God, why are you allowing this? Why, and we’ll incorrectly say, why are you doing this? But it’s, why are we, are you allowing this? Because sometimes our suffering is just meant for others, right? Sometimes the things that we go through, and for those of you who haven’t read her diary, like I want to read some of the things she said so we could feel like, cause I think we’ll find some.

Not camaraderie, but like you’ll feel, you’ll find some familiar things in the things that she’s saying. If you’re familiar at all with this feeling we’ve been talking about of desolation. She says there’s a deep loneliness in my heart that I cannot express it How long our lord how long will our lord stay away?

Sometimes the pain is so great that I feel as if everything will break The smile is a big cloak which covers a multitudes of pains. She goes on to say Where is my faith, even deep down, right in? There is nothing but emptiness and darkness. My God, how painful is this unknown pain. It pains without seeking.

I have no faith. I dare not utter the words and thoughts that crowd in my heart and make me suffer untold agony. So many unanswered questions live within me. I’m afraid to uncover them because of the blasphemy. If there be God, please forgive me. She goes on to say the place of God in my soul is blank.

There is no God in me. That terrible longing keeps growing in, and I feel as if something will break in me one day. And then that darkness comes, that loneliness, that feeling of terrible aloneness. Heaven seems closed from every side, and yet I long for God. I long to love Him with every drop of life in me.

And I want to love him with a deep and personal love. So here’s this woman who everyone saw on the stage, this tiny little woman who is serving the poor on the streets of India. And just, they called her the saint of the gutters, the mother of the gutters. And if you ever saw her, like even physically, she looked like she hurt all the time.

If you saw her feet, her big toes were like turned east and west, like they, her feet were mangled. And yet, Every single day she says these wonderful things that she talked about how she spent so much time not trying to think of her own self But to see the person she had a quote where she said if I think of crowds of people Then I probably wouldn’t even begin So I think of the one person and I think of that personal a personal one one on one relationship and allows me to do this great Work, but here she is in the midst of all this like That’s probably blowing some people’s minds right now because it blew my when I read those I was crying because I felt that pain before I felt it this past week like Lord, what’s going on?

Why have you taken yourself from me? Why have you I can’t even feel you It feels like the doors of heaven are shut on every side But yet she still was able to do all this amazing work because at the end of the day She was able to say Lord. I don’t understand but your will be done by your bill will be done That’s what she says at the end of that last quote.

She says I long, yet I long for God, heaven seems close from every side, yet I long for God. I long to love Him with every drop of life in me, and I want to love Him with a deep personal love. Like no matter how she felt, she still sought the Lord. She persevered through all that pain, through all that desolation, through all of those times of feeling like she couldn’t find Him.

And that’s the thing, like we have two choices in desolation. The devil wants to use it to get you to lay down, to quit, to walk away from God, to say I’ve had enough, I tried it your way, and I couldn’t do it, I couldn’t cut it, so I’m done, right? I’m gonna go and join the crowd of fish swimming downstream, because it’s easy, it’s comfortable, it’s better, and I don’t have to worry about all this stuff, and I don’t have to feel this pain.

But in fact, that’s a worse pain, because you’re empty at that point. You’re comfortable, but you’re empty. And so the other choice is That you just you double down even harder on what your belief in the lord And that’s what mother teresa wound up saying, later on in other quotes about this She said be faithful in small things because it is in them that your strength lies so those days where she felt beaten down and hard like away from god and where she’s like almost in tears because She feels like the lord has just completely left her What did she do?

She went and she found God in that individual person that needed help that day or in that moment or one of a thousand she helped in a day. She went and she continued to do that work that God called her to because she knew that the Lord was there and whenever he wanted to show up, he would show up, right?

Whenever she would feel him again, she would feel him again because it wasn’t her will to your point. It was his. And so she says that, and then she had a spiritual director, like the person that she went to that really was the only person that knew that she was facing this. Beyond, her diary, unless she shared it with some of her sisters in the convent.

But he says this, he told her this advice. He said the sure sign of God’s hidden presence. In this darkness is the thirst for God. No one can long for God unless God is present in his or her heart Except the darkness in union with Jesus. So what is he telling her there? Like first of all the sure sign that God hasn’t left you that he’s there with you in this midst Is your thirst for him?

You’re longing for him. He goes on to say no one can long for God unless God is present in his or her heart. So this notion of God’s left you, the thing the devil is trying to preach to you is nonsense. He’s saying no, you wouldn’t even feel the need to long for God if God had left you, if he had forsaken you, right?

And we even hear that Jesus echoes that in what he says in scripture in john 7 37 through 38 He says if anyone thirst let him come to me and drink He who believes in me as the scripture has said out of his heart shall flow rivers of living water So what mother teresa? Found and what she knew through spiritual direction and through our lord speaking to her Was just like you don’t walk away from the river when you’re thirsty like you continue to seek and you continue to long for that drink and jesus is saying I am that water I am that drink like I know you may not feel it in the moment But i’m here pouring that water into your mouth each and every moment that you look forward in prayer Through grace through the sacraments through the mass like i’m here And in the effort should be concentrated on where is god You But what is he trying to show me?

Why am I in this? What am I looking for? And that’s what I loved about mother Teresa. She never quit. Like she continued to look for God. She continued to thirst and find water in those people that she helped right. Through Christ himself in those people. And this is the way that we have to go. We have to persevere in these things.

And it’s been a number of weeks for me, like feeling like that and just going, man, like I don’t remember the last time I’ve laughed. I don’t remember the last time I’ve smiled. It really meant it. I don’t remember the time I’ve been happy. And I found myself, drinking a little too much and trying to know the pain, which is what we do.

We self medicate and those things. When we feel that void and that emptiness. And so it was that calling, like I called a friend, right? And she helped me through it. I’ve spoken to my spiritual director and he’s helped me and through those things that through pushing myself back into the things that I know I need to be doing every day, even though I don’t feel like doing them is what’s brought me back into this place where I’m coming out of it.

I could feel those consolations coming in. And one of them is this podcast and the moment, the movement of the Holy spirit, I feel in it with you as we’re doing this Victor. And so we continue to hear from scripture like this is why I’m always telling people to go to the word, right? When you’re feeling this is one of the avenues you need to go to when you’re in this desolation is what is.

What is the Lord trying to say to me? Go and read because he’s got thousands of pages or hundreds of pages of what he wants to say to you. So it’s Psalm 40 verse 1 through 2. This came to mind when I started looking for answers to desolation. It’s David writing this psalm to the Lord, is what people assume.

And he says, I waited patiently for the Lord. He turned to me and heard my cry. He lifted me out of the slimy pit, out of the mud and mire. He set me my feet on a rock and he gave me a firm place to stand. That’s what happens if we just keep moving forward. If we don’t take our eyes off of God, if we fight the urge to just give up and to turn away from God and to sit in self pity and surrender it, like surrender to the wrong things, not surrender to God, but surrendering to our emotions and surrendering to the plots and the ploys of the devil in that desolation.

Job Continue to say, I will praise the Lord, right? I will the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away. He never once cursed God. In the terrible things that happened to him, in those desolations he was feeling, the loss of life, the loss of everything he had built to, built to have in his life.

He lost all of it, even bowls and sores on his skin. And even in that, in the midst of that, when the devil was sitting there poking and prodding him, he kept turning his eyes to the Lord, and that’s what we’re called to do. And that’s what David was doing there. I stayed steadfast, I persevered, and the Lord pulled me out of it.

It goes on, James says, there’s two verses here I want to read, or two little things here from James. The first one, he says, Count it all as joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds. For you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. Which is perfect. perseverance. And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life which God has promised to those who love him. Not just love them for one moment. Not just love them when we got baptized and we’re riding on a. A feeling of a spiritual high but love him in the midst of trials and tribulations, too That’s james 4 and james 1 12.

And so that’s the thing It’s about persevering and that’s what the church really says that persevering is it’s about continuing in these times of difficulty That’s when we see the type of men we are. That’s when our spiritual growth is made. That’s what the Lord’s really trying to do. He’s not sitting you in this desolation to punish you.

He’s sitting you there and you’re being stretched. And that’s why it’s uncomfortable. That’s why it’s, it sucks, honestly, to feel that way. It’s, it hurts. But the Lord through that growth, he’s remolding you, right? It’s he’s taken the clay that he was building a cup or a pot or something, and he got a little old kilter.

So we just. He takes a moment to smash the clay back down to what it was and to restart sculpting it again. He’s putting you in this place of forging and that’s what he’s willing to do to each and every one of us. So we can look at desolation, even though it’s difficult, not as a punishment because it’s not, God isn’t causing it, he’s allowing it, but as a moment to be, is a gift, right?

To be remade in a way in a certain thing that maybe we’re not living correctly in our lives, or maybe it’s just because God wants to use that That’s suffering in our life. It is an example to someone else as he’s done with mother Teresa. And, as I said before, outside events, if we’re not in deep prayer life where we’re not connected to God, we’ll.

It will cause pain in our lives, and it may take us from where we’re not close to the people we love the most, and we may actually hurt the people we are close to the most. So I, what we’re saying is that, even though you’re struggling, know that there has been saints that have gone through the same thing.

There’s scripture that as you read, it’s the way God speaks to you. In prayer, we speak to God. And in scripture, he speaks to us. Because even though it seems unique to us, it’s not as many of us have gone before in this world and through the scriptures and through writings of saints and everybody else who have felt the same.

Process of faith, sure. And know that we’re on the right path. If the saints are struggling, like we’re, and we’re feeling the same struggle, they’re feeling them, we’re on the right path. It’s just we can’t give up. We have to be conscious of the fact that this is just a moment, it’s temporary and it’s not permanent and turn to God and say, God I’m here.

I’m patiently waiting as if David was, I am. I feel I’m in Muck and Meyer and I’m waiting. For you, because I love you so much. I know you don’t, you won’t abandon me that you will put me back where I need to be. Yeah. And that’s the thing. We even see it in Jesus himself, in the garden, he was in desolation, right?

His friends were passed out. They wouldn’t even stay away with awake. When the devil was just prowling and tormenting him in that moment, trying to get him to choose his own will. And what did he do? He didn’t turn from God. He said, your will be done. And what happened after he went through all that pain and that torture and suffering?

Yeah. There was a resurrection because God didn’t abandon him. He will not abandon us. And we see it in a lived example again with mother Teresa, right? You can win the freaking Nobel priest prize. You can be on the cover of time magazine. You can be one of the most influential people in the history of the world and still be in that desolation and still manage to do the will of God.

And to be the person that God calls you to be, it’s just where you allow yourself to go. Are you going to allow the devil to win in your life and to call you and to pull you away from the Lord? Are you just going to surrender everything in obedience and say, Lord, I don’t understand, but I know that you love me and that you do all things as Romans 28, 28 says for the good of all of us, right?

Like, All things happen for the good of us. And so that’s what I want to talk about here as we close is how do we do this? Okay, John, we’re supposed to persevere. How do we do it? Number one, pray, it’s hard in desolation. You don’t want to pray. Like we feel like decreasing our prayer because we can’t feel the effects of it.

So we start to move away from it. But praying more frequently and fervently is actually what we need. Like more frequent and fervent prayer like lord and it doesn’t have to be some shakespearean like lord. I experience the pangs of life that thou have bestowed upon me lord. I’m just broken right now I just I need you in my life Like it’s not what you’re saying It’s the time you spend and so much that needs to be silenced too So we can hear what he has to say too saying I know you see me help me see you right?

Yeah, that’s exactly it So just giving that time and breaking away to focus on him and to ask him to shine a light in those places that where you may be struggling to speak to a trusted friend. That’s what I did. That’s the second thing I did. I called my friend Devaney, who’s been like a spiritual director to me for years, right?

I shout out to Devaney. I love that girl, consecrated virgin here in the diocese runs a couple of apostles. She’s amazing. And she’s experienced these things too. And we talk about it. And she said, she was telling me, Like John, this is what you need to do. And look at all the things the Lord has done with you and all those things you’re telling yourself are lies.

And you’ve got to cast those out and dah. So we talked about those things and then. In desolation, we tend to isolate Victor. We internalize and we withdraw and there’s a level of shame we might even feel. And so your reaction could be just to shove it down and to go hide, right?

To just hope it goes away, but it’s not like you’re experiencing this. The Lord’s allowing this for a reason. You have to remember that. So isolation and shoving it down never works. In fact, it makes it worse. So we need to talk to somebody about it. One of the things that helped me was As I told Devany about it, like I was actually working through it as I spoke it out loud.

It was no longer just trapped in my head and I’m chasing it around like a dog chasing my tail. It helped to get it out the way it has so many times with you and all the men in our men’s group and we’re all sharing what’s going on in our life. That’s why we need community and why we’re so adamant about starting it in all of our parishes.

Three, speak, seek spiritual direction. I spoke to my spiritual director, right? If you have a spiritual director, Take it to him and let him give you advice. Let him help you figure it out. That’s what it’s for, him or her, whatever it is in your life. If it’s a priest or just a lay person, male or female, go and speak with them.

Because they’re trained in the way of seeing through these things, of giving you steps that you can take to concretely try to get out of it, to pray your way out of it or to do things, acts of penance other things like that, to try to. Try to get out of this desolation, then four, preach the truth to yourself.

Like in the midst of that desolation, you’re going to hear those negative things. I don’t matter. God doesn’t love me. I’m no good. Why am I even doing this? I’m fighting an uphill battle. I’m beating my head against the wall. I should just quit. Like those are not truths from God. God doesn’t speak to you that way.

You need to remind yourself that goes with desolation. He doesn’t cause it just like parents that allow their kids time to figure things out. Like they could go and easily fix something for their children. Like when my children are struggling with homework, I, if it’s something like second grade level or below, I could probably help them, but like I could fix something for them, but they’re not going to learn anything.

They’re not going to learn it if I do it for them. So God allows us to struggle, to search, to dig deep within ourselves, to find that perseverance, to find that thing that he’s given us, his grace and the Holy Spirit to claw our way out of these things and come to our own answers.

And that’s what he’s doing. Like a good father, he’s allowing us to do the same thing that, that that we would do for our own children. So just, preach the truth that he loves you. He’s a good father and he’s just allowing you to work through problems. Because he can’t do everything for us. He gives us the grace, but again, it’s our will and our desire to love him and to follow him as St.

Ignatius said, like finally he allows it allows us to go through desolation to see how much we desire to love and follow him. And so that’s what he’s allowing us there. Five acts of penance and examine, right? You start getting too much in yourself and thinking too much about yourself. Go do something for other people, right?

Do acts of penance, acts of service, acts of sacrifice, then constantly looking as you’re feeling bad. Why do I feel bad? What hurts? What is it? When did I start feeling this way that examined we should be doing every night in our life? We can do multiple times a day. To start examining why do I keep feeling this way?

What is the root cause of this? And that may be indeed where God’s trying to lead you through the desolation to shine a light on that and to get you to the answer you’re looking for so you can return to consolation. You want to have those acts of penance and examine. And then finally, don’t make big or important decisions.

That’s the one thing the devil’s going to tempt you to do. Stop going to church. Stop praying. Quit your job. Leave your wife. He’s going to say those things, and if you do those things, you’re going to find yourself in a whole lot worse desolation than you ever will. You’re not, Saint Ignatius says, never make big decisions in moments of desolation.

Only in consolation. Are you allowed to do that? Are you supposed to do that when you’re in the right mind and the right heart with God? So that’s what I would say. Pray, talk to a friend, speak, seek spiritual direction. If you don’t have a spiritual director, seriously think about finding one. Preach the truth to yourself about who God is and how he wants to father you and love you, you know Go and do acts of sacrifice acts of penance examine your life and then don’t make big decisions That’s the way that I found helps to come out of perseverance or out of desolation It’s through perseverance and those are the ways that you persevere paul says you got to run the race, right?

And you keep running the race and that’s from a guy that got beat snakebit thrown down a hill arrested shipwrecked eventually beheaded. And he’s telling you, yeah, I felt all that stuff too. Notice he didn’t say first place. He said, finish the race. Yeah. Finish the race. And there’s a guy that literally suffered the entire time after his conversion pretty much.

And he’s saying, this is how you do it. You persevere and the eternal reward is there. So Victor, I appreciate your time again, man. I know this was a little bit long over an episode, but man, this is a topic that I think we all struggle with. I think he’s going to speak deeply to those. Yeah. That I hear it and are dealing with it and struggling with this very moment.

Yeah So victor as always we don’t want to just leave without taking all this stuff to prayer So let’s take it to prayer in the name of the father and the son and the holy spirit Amen, heavenly father as your children. We all want nothing more than to constantly feel your presence in our lives And to always do your will.

Sometimes though we find ourselves in darkness and desolation, struggling to move forward and not able to feel your grace and those difficult moments. Lord, help us to seek you more fervently through prayer, penance, and perseverance. And Lord, whenever we find ourselves on the verge of giving up, remind us to look to St.

Teresa of Calcutta and her per perseverance and desolation as an inspiration in the name of the Father and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen.